Good morning. My name is Carrie Cole and I am the Kentucky Policy Advocacy and Partnership Manager for The Bail Project. I grew up in Louisville and work here in Kentucky. This is my home. 

The Bail Project is a national nonprofit organization that is dedicated to restoring the presumption of innocence by advocating for the elimination of cash bail – the practice of tying a person’s pretrial liberty to money. The Bail Project has operated branches in nearly two dozen cities in the United States and has provided free bail assistance to nearly 30,000 low-income residents nationally. In addition to posting bail for free for low-income individuals, The Bail Project gathers evidence from its intervention to inform policy making on matters of pretrial justice and pretrial incarceration.

The Bail Project operated a charitable bail organization in Louisville from 2018 to 2023, where we provided free bail assistance to over 4,200 Kentuckians. By our estimates, our work in Kentucky prevented, on average, 37 days in jail per person, which amounted to more than 200,000 total jail days averted and as much as $15 million taxpayer dollars saved through reduced jail administration costs. While preventing the unnecessary incarceration that results from wealth-based detention, our clients in Louisville returned to 91% of their court dates, lending crucial evidence to the idea that cash bail is unnecessary to ensure that someone returns to court. 

Cash bail creates a two-tiered system of justice that benefits the rich and disadvantages those without money, upending the fundamental principle in our justice system that everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Charitable bail organizations provide an essential service that Kentuckians cannot afford to lose with the bail system in its current form. That is why we come today in staunch opposition to House Bill 5 – the Safer Kentucky Act. What the bill sponsors, and supporters of this legislation fail to understand is that the provisions outlined in this bill will not protect public safety, but instead, work against it. 

House Bill 5 is unfair and un-American, subverting the presumption of innocence. It would prohibit charitable bail organizations from posting bail amounts of $5,000 or more and prevent them from supporting people charged with a variety of alleged offenses. Effectively, this is a doubling-down on the two-tiered, wealth-based nature of the cash bail system in Kentucky. It privileges wealthy people who will still be able to pay to secure their freedom – regardless of underlying safety concerns – over poor people. Additionally, this legislation contains an overly broad definition of “charitable bail organizations” with onerous restrictions that might apply even to churches or a Mom-and-Pop shop putting up a GoFundMe to support their son.

We all deserve to be safe, but legislation like the Safer Kentucky Act cannot deliver on that promise because it entrenches policies fueling mass incarceration, which will only harm the poorest and most vulnerable Kentuckians. Instead of introducing legislation to provide funding for necessary preventative services that address unmet needs like unemployment, housing insecurity, mental illness and addiction – all of which are root causes for justice-system involvement – House Bill 5 contains a myriad of misguided provisions, including regulations of charitable bail organizations, which will only harm the most disadvantaged and already vulnerable Kentuckians in the state. 

We all deserve to be safe, no matter what we look like, where we come from, or how much money is in our wallets.

Thank you.

DOMINIC: Hi my name is Dominic Fike and I’m here with The Bail Project. And we are standing in front of the Collier County Jail, which I was previously incarcerated in. And today we’re going to bail some people out of jail. 

HANNAH: Yeah, it’s so nice to meet you! You know we made a special trip down here to help you bail people out of the Collier County Jail in Naples. Like how does that feel? Like just being back here?

DOMINIC: It’s weird. It’s a lot less anxiety than you would think. I remember the day I was released from here, as soon as I walked out I didn’t feel anything. It’s weird how it does that. But man, I mean I’m excited to be here with you guys and meet you guys. I think what you’re doing is incredible. I’d like to learn a little bit more about it.

HANNAH: Yeah, yeah awesome. Well we’re a national nonprofit and we pay people’s bail for free. So you know we help people that are in jail just waiting for a court date. They haven’t been convicted of anything, they’re just waiting to have their day in court. And we set up a release plan for them after we pay their bail so they have everything they need to get back to court. You know text reminders, free rides to court, just so that they can fight their case from a position of freedom like anybody with money would do. 

DOMINIC: That’s incredible. You would think that would be the job of like the people who kind of lock you up.

HANNAH: Right, right you would think. Yeah, I mean you know bail was originally intended as an incentive to return to court but now it’s really just used to keep people without money behind bars. I mean our work shows that you don’t need money to return to court. Our clients return to over 90% of their court dates with no money on the line. So we’re just trying to prove that point and use the work that we’ve been doing the past five years to make some change.

DOMINIC: Incredible.

HANNAH: Yeah but, how was your experience being in jail? 

DOMINIC: It’s overwhelming how many people are in jail. It’s like when I got there I was sort of like just taken back by how big of a system it was how many people how many families are dealing with their you know loved ones being in this cage and kind of the conditions and how used to it like the cops are. The you know the people holding you there are just sort of like you know stick and move keep going keep going one after another. It’s like being on a product line sort of. Felt like a piece of meat.

I mean the whole process of being kind of roped into the system constantly needing rides to get from this you know building to go register here before you’re arrested there. And then you know I think that was the most tiring part was kind of learning all the ins and outs of the system.

HANNAH: Yeah, the system is so confusing and alienating and many people don’t even know what their options are. And instead of trying to help you through that process, bail bondsmen come in and they’re just worried about making a profit. You know we operate a national revolving bail fund that’s completely funded through donations. We pay 100% of the bail directly to the court so that when someone’s case closes we get 100% of that money back and use it to help the next person.

DOMINIC: Well, hats off to you guys. I’m going to keep it on because it’s hot.

HANNAH: Please! I get it, I get it. 

DOMINIC: But hats off.

Actually I don’t know that I was bailed out. I think my parents were also in jail and I didn’t have friends with money at the time. Again it was like a learning like I really had and everyone is so well versed in it. They’re kind of moving too fast for you to like ask them what these things mean and if you do you’re kind of looked at as like an idiot. I’d heard the terms like plea deal and things like on TV.

HANNAH: Right. 

DOMINIC: You know what I mean? And when you’re in court and they’re asking you these serious fucking questions you’re like oh my God.

HANNAH: Like wait, do I really know what that is? 

DOMINIC: Yeah, wait wait wait wait.

HANNAH: Actually what are my options? 

DOMINIC: Seriously that’s kind of how it was like for me and my experience. It was sort of like I was just constantly trying to grab a hold of you know the situation. Because of kind of my lack of knowledge I think that’s what contributed to my you know incarceration. After going to so many court dates and jumping through so many hoops. And I was in there for a little bit, you know. A little under a year probably. So I kind of had people on the outside, you know waiting. And I had a girlfriend. Can’t beat that, you know what I mean. She would send me money and nice messages.

HANNAH: Yeah, I mean that’s something people don’t think about, you know if you don’t have any support.

DOMINIC: A lot of people don’t in there. 

HANNAH: Right! 

DOMINIC: A lot of people don’t have anything. I saw a lot of people that were going through it.

HANNAH: No you’re right, I mean it affects so many people. Like on any given night nearly half a million people are sleeping in jail cells, a lot of them just because they can’t afford their bail. Instead of waiting for their day in court, a lot of them are forced into taking plea deals just to go home.

DOMINIC: For real, I actually did that. I didn’t want to like fight at all. So we were just like yeah whatever you’ll give me as long as it’s not five years whatever you’ll give me that will make this done, you know what I mean. That’s the crazy part is they sort of scare you into incarceration half the time. Because they’ll be like well if you don’t you know take this plea then there’s a chance that you’ll lose and you’ll end up here longer, and also there’s just going to be a continuation of these court dates and the stress that that’s going to bring and that stress is going to add on to whatever stress is already kind of present in your life which is typic… I don’t know. Down here it’s just like, ugh God.

It felt like a joke kind of growing up here. Almost like a big fucking play. I was just kind of surprised at how it all was so well oiled and functional with this huge underlying problem. And I had become more and more aware of it each year and each time we would have to move or something would affect the family financially you’d become a little bit more aware of the divide and how serious it is. What I’ve been here for a week, there’s like three people of color maybe that I’ve seen. Isn’t that nuts?

HANNAH: Yeah, it really is. 

DOMINIC: Just because I was hanging out in the in the nicer places or like Fifth Avenue, Third Avenue. Like these are just like expensive white owned like clean they’re just constantly being patrolled. And if you don’t kind of fit the description of the average shopper you’re pulled over, your license may be expired your tags are or a headlight out or something like that, you’re gonna go to, I mean  God forbid you have marijuana in the car you’re going straight to jail. And then you’re tied into this system, and then it’s you know difficult to get back to court and then all of a sudden you’re taking a plea deal and then you have this thing on your record and it’s difficult to get a job because you don’t have a job well then you’re back in here. And it’s just nuts, man.

HANNAH: Yeah, I mean thinking about your experience how have you used it to help get others to care about the same issues that you care about?

DOMINIC: I mean it’s affected me positively in ways obviously. Like I can use in music and talk about it and relate to others and maybe lift others out of the sort of despair that comes with you know just being attached to the system. But I don’t know it’s kind of bittersweet. I think I try to bring a little bit of awareness to friends and family and maybe people on the internet about how terrible this can be. I try not to make it out to be a sob story. I’m just like it’s really hard and there are real people in there and these people have families and connections to us and I don’t know you’d never know unless somebody told you, because it’s not like it’s documented you know.

HANNAH: I mean that’s why we focus on bail. It’s really a hidden part of systemic violence  and an entry point to mass incarceration. We’re using our data to prove that cash bail is unnecessary and unjust.

DOMINIC: If you can get a handle on it early and kind of get a little understanding of it and maybe some help you know that can prevent years and years or a lifetime of just looping in this fucking system. I have a better understanding of what you guys do. I admire it. I’m infinitely you know at your service. And it’s incredible. Let’s keep the day, let’s keep it going. 

HANNAH: Yeah, yeah.

DOMINIC: Let’s go get Courtney out of jail because this place sucks. 

For anyone that is a fan of me or has ever I don’t know listened to any of my songs or watched me on TV, I would encourage you to research The Bail Project and just educate yourselves about what it is that they do and who they help and how they’re helping because to me it’s very important. And I think that everyone could do with a little bit more you know knowledge on the subject. So, love.

Today, I am so proud to introduce myself as the new CEO of The Bail Project. I couldn’t be more honored to lead this organization and work alongside the incredible staff and clients who keep the dream of creating a more humane and just system alive. Together, we can achieve a future where freedom doesn’t depend on the amount of money in your bank account.

I joined The Bail Project years ago because I wanted to help create a justice system that respects everyone’s humanity and treats everyone fairly. And for me this is personal. As a young man, I made some mistakes and bad choices that resulted in my going to prison for 10 years of my life. During that time, I was reduced to a number, 755376 – but I never gave up on myself.

I stand here today as proof that we can all rise above our worst mistakes. I’m a husband, a father of five, and a grandfather. I’m a Mexican-American, connected to my family and to my community. And proudly, I am the next CEO of The Bail Project. Our work over the past 5 years proves that cash bail is not only unfair, it is unnecessary. There is still a lot of work to do. And it isn’t going to always be easy. But I know that together, anything is possible.

A reimagined justice system without cash bail is not only possible, it is inevitable. I can’t wait to get started. 

My name is Andrea. I am currently a single mom of six. I’m 35, yeah. And I work full-time for a company by the name of USAA, a lot of people are familiar. I’ve been there for seven years. I’m a customer service representative. And I like to cook. I like to exercise. I was raised in Brooklyn, New York in the projects. I don’t know if you’re familiar with Jay-Z, but yeah I grew up there.

I moved to Louisville, Kentucky when I was about 10 going on 11. And um when I moved here I really couldn’t read, I couldn’t write. I could write, but I wasn’t on the reading level. Um so moving to Kentucky that is one of the good things. But I’ve been here for a while now. The difference between like the countryside of Kentucky versus Louisville the city side? Just the different nationalities in Louisville versus you won’t find that in Eastern Kentucky, or you won’t find that in Elizabethtown. It’s just the difference of – it’s the diversity, is the difference.

Being in jail was the most horrible experience ever. You get treated like you are not human. I thought that it was innocent until proven guilty, but once those cuffs go on your hand you’re basically guilty. My children was my biggest concern while I was in jail. My incarceration really affected my children really bad. I seen in my five-year-old Paris when I got out of jail like it was a separation problem. Like I would go to the bathroom and she would cry. And she would be like, are you going to leave me again? And I’d be like, no I’m not, I’m not going anywhere. I’m here. And my son he has ADHD, my son Dante. He has ADHD already so he goes through the emotional ups and downs. The whole 12 days I was locked up he cried. And he didn’t want to go to school, he was depressed. He just didn’t, he just felt out of place because his provider wasn’t there. The person that he knows is going to make sure he’s good wasn’t there. So it was really hard for them to kind of adjust with me not being around.

The first thing I did when I was released from jail was hug my daughter Paris. If The Bail Project wouldn’t have post my bail honestly I would have never made it to my son’s graduation. The feeling of seeing my first child walk across the stage was incredible! Like it was in a major accomplishment. My relationship with me and my oldest son Jay’Shawne is it’s a special relationship. Yeah that’s my baby, that’s my life. That’s my lifeline. We done been through traveling in New York, me pregnant having a baby. He was actually there when I was delivering his sister. So like, we done been through some things. And he’s out beat so many obstacles. And it’s just like, it’s a beautiful thing. To have a child that’s never gotten in trouble as a teenager, who’s always passed through school, graduated at the age of 17, has a full ride scholarship. In my eyes my son is perfect. And it just makes me thrive to want more. Because he’s so humble. And that’s a good feeling, when you have a child that’s humble who can adjust and adapt to good, bad, and excellent.

All boils down to if it wasn’t for The Bail Project I was not going to be able to get to my son’s graduation. And I wouldn’t have been able to be with my children, so it’s a lot that it’s a domino effect of the good in this company and the good in this program. And it needs to be around. These are one of the programs that would benefit not only me as a minority, but everybody else who’s affected by the judicial system. Who’s not able to bond out. Who’s not able to afford a $25,000 10% cash bond. Who has a life, and you know, who wants to get back to life. So I really appreciate you all for that. Thank you, from the bottom of my heart.

I’m Mike. I’m from Powderly, Kentucky and we’re sitting on my property. I am as country as country can be and proud of it I guess. I’ve lived here for about 50 years. I took a job several years back to tear a house down and my mother’s uncle told me that it was a log cabin. Well of course it was covered in siding and a you couldn’t tell it was a log cabin. As I was tearing it down I realized he was right and then we disassembled it and brought it up here, put it back together. The work that went into it I wouldn’t do it again for love nor money. But everybody else seems to really enjoy it!

When coal mining went out around here the economy went from people buying new homes and new cars to losing the new homes and new cars, and it’s been pretty much poverty-stricken ever since. What it was like being arrested and going to jail. Humiliating. I turned the wrong way down a one-way street. Before I knew it literally there was three or four cop cars and a slam down on the ground. Mistreated I felt like. But I guess they probably have to be for their own safety. I’m sure that was part of it. Just humiliated. In front of everybody and vehicle towed off. And ripped apart. I knew I wasn’t DUI and looking back the lady kept telling me that if you’ll pay for it you can go to the hospital and get a blood test or whatever. Because looking back I know that she was trying to direct me in the right direction. If I’d done that I would have never.

What was my experience like working with The Bail Project? I was surprised to even know one existed. And I’d been there 10 or 11 days and after calling The Bail Project the next day my bond was posted. I thought this is unbelievable. I was wondering how in the world I was going to come up with six thousand dollars. Most people, especially the people that I’m familiar with, for instance 10,000 cash, it could be a million it wouldn’t make no difference. If you hadn’t got it you hadn’t got it. Guilty, innocent, don’t matter. You’ll sit there and wonder… wonder how can they call it a commonwealth when ain’t nothing common about it.

We kind of laugh around here about having a bail bondsman to get you out. You’re not getting out around here until either a friend, your family, or someone puts up the bail bond. And it’s always so ridiculously high that you’re going to stay in jail until they decide otherwise. And that is just about the way it is. What am I hopeful for in the future? I hope y’all get what y’all are shooting for. Well that’s a good question. So many things really. Prioritize. I hope my son and my grandson have a good life. I hope they get what they want. That set aside, I just hope they’re happy irregardless of what they want. One of these days Ryder will be sitting right here I’m sure. I hope.

Hey! I’m Hannah with The Bail Project. We’re here in Kentucky asking folks all over the state what they think about bail. What is bail? I don’t know. I don’t claim to understand the justice system. Yes, what is bail? I don’t know. From what I’ve learned is that bail is essentially a price that you pay while you’re awaiting trial to be able to leave jail. So if you can’t afford bail, you stay in jail until your trial. But if you have the funds to do so, you can then leave and then with the promise of coming back.

Did you know that in more than half of cases Kentuckians cannot afford to pay their bail and remain in jail until trial? No, I did not know that. We’re not exactly the richest state and everybody’s really, I mean, everyone I know is working blue collar jobs. Once you fall into a hole I mean it’s hard to get back out, you know, it’s very hard. I would never be able to afford bail nor no one in my family. So if you know the standard person can’t, why can the rich people? It’s not fair, not fair at all. We should all be treated equally, regardless if we have money or not. I mean I’m from southeastern Kentucky, so people really don’t have the funds for a lot of things, so I could imagine that a more like poverty-driven state would probably have issues with paying bail.

Do you think it’s fair that people with money can pay to get out and people without money have to stay in jail until their trial? No, I don’t think it’s fair at all. No, it’s class warfare. No, it’s not fair, it’s not right. Just because you got money in this country you can do whatever you want. Oh, it’s not fair at all. But that’s the way it’s always been. It’s something I don’t see changing. It’s a privilege when you have money, so yeah, I don’t know how you would even combat that one.

So there is an alternative, something we’ve been doing at The Bail Project for years, it’s called Community Release with Support. People are released from jail, we send them text reminders for their court dates, we give them free rides to court, connect them to services in their communities, and people return to their court dates with no financial obligation. Do you think we should use that in place of cash bail? That sounds like good idea that might help some people. I don’t see why not. It’s keeping people with their families, jobs. Hell yeah. I mean and if not I mean that’s definitely a good start. That is I mean I’d support that 100% compared to what we have now. Yeah, because as a taxpayer I am paying for them to hold them in jail, you know, it’s money out of my pocket. You know this is on the taxpayers dime that you’re holding people. Any alternative to holding people who are presumed innocent is a good alternative in my opinion.

And do you believe in the presumption of innocence? Absolutely. Absolutely, I do. Yes. Yes, I do. Yes. Yes. Oh yeah. Yeah, sure, of course. I mean the whole system is founded on a presumption of innocence. Well, that’s the way it used to be. Now you’re guilty until proven innocent. There seems to be maybe some glitches. We need major reform. I don’t know what it is I wish I was smart enough to know, but you guys are trying to do something I guess that’s a good thing. I believe in what y’all are doin. That’s fair. I appreciate it. God bless y’all. 

Byron is one of my longer term cases that I bailed out through The Bail Project. And I love Byron and his dog Blade. Here it is Sunday afternoon and I’m certainly not working, but Byron needed a jump start and some help with gas, so I came out to help.

I’m a retired Marine, transgender, living here in Spokane, Washington pretty much homeless living in my motor home behind me. My dad was a Marine. My mom was a nurse. He moved all over the place so we followed. We went to Northern Ireland when I was very young. The violence was just overwhelming. I saw my first dead body before I was six years old and I saw a person die in my mom’s arms before I was seven. At first I didn’t think it really had much impact on me, but now I do know that it was a tremendous impact on me – me getting in a lot of trouble.

I have petit mal seizures, and then me being homeless and living on the street my cell phone gets periodically gets taken from me, I that some people steal it – you fall asleep in the wrong place or something like that. So I was missing a lot of court dates, so I would have uh warrants for my arrest for you know minor things, you know traffic violations and things like that. They kept me for like eight days. I couldn’t bail out on a $1500 bond. My dog was taken to SCRAPS. I almost lost her. She’s my service dog because of my seizures.

The county uh public defender said, “Why aren’t you with The Bail Project?” And she was the one that contacted Sabrina. They got together and they called SCRAPS and told them, “Don’t adopt this guy’s dog out because he’s gonna flip out if he loses his dog.” Bailed me out of jail and, they arrested me without my shoes and she even went out and got me a pair of shoes. It works! About two-thirds of our clients are dealing with some sort of housing insecurity. 70% of our clients identify as either having a history of or a current issue with substance use, and around half of our clients identify as having some sort of mental health issue.

Being homeless on the streets of Spokane without a motorhome, tent camping, you’re getting hassled by the police everywhere. Where are we supposed to sleep? What at night we just supposed to keep shuffling around and walk? You get a ticket. I mean you don’t go to court, you go to jail. You’re limited in your, your transportation so you’re buying a lot of your stuff from convenience stores and things like that which are much more expensive than going out and buying at Costco or Walmart you know. Being homeless is some of the hardest work in the world. Trying to just get food. You know, knowing where all the the shelters are, where you can go to the food bank and it’s hard work. You’re constantly on the move, uh, you don’t have the luxury of saying, oh gee you know I can put my uh belongings over here and uh walk away and they’ll be safe because somebody’s gonna come by and say, “Oh well gee, look what I found!” You know and suddenly your stuff’s gone. And if it’s like December and it’s snowy or cold, your sleeping bags and blankets go bye-bye you could die.

There’s no need to jail people just because they’re homeless. I want to take my dog and I want to go visit the rest of the United States to see what I was protecting for those years, you know, and see the national parks. Introduce my dog to the ocean. I’m living the beginnings of my future right now.

My name is Louis Salazar. I’m 57 years old. This is my wife Lupe. We’ve known each other since we were kids. We got together 2012 and we got married about maybe a month after we met. She has four kids, my stepkids. You know they’re still my kids no matter what. My boys started getting into arguments and fighting and stuff and I just started getting more and more frustrated. And that morning it was just, I just blew up.

To me that was shocking, cause I was in shock. For the whole six days I was in the county jail I was in shock. Begged her and begged her please get me a bail bonds, please get me out of here, get me out of here, I can’t be in here. You know, I gotta be home with you. I gotta make sure you’re okay. And that’s when she ended up in the hospital and I didn’t know. And I’m calling and calling and calling and I can’t get ahold of her. And that’s hard. It’s frustrating for a person to be in jail and not be able to do anything out here, you know, or to help your family.

Lupe’s been going through dialysis, for what, two years now. Her oxygen she has to be on constantly. I’m constantly moving her around, doing everything for her. And for me to be in the jail and her being out there, it scared me cause I didn’t know if they were really helping her. While he was in jail, I went into a diabetic coma. I thought I was gonna die. And I didn’t know what to do cause of my boys. Through my mind I was going, he’s never gonna come out. When he didn’t I said, God please make a miracle.

You know, and that’s when I had got a call from Priscilia. For me it was like thank god. This is the miracle I was waiting for. So Louis is actually a client of mine. I’ve been working with him since 2020. Cash bail detains people in pretrial detention before they’ve even been convicted of a crime. In California our bails are some of the highest bails in the country. Louis had a $100,000 bail. Luckily we were able to bail him out, but during that time he went through so much hardship even after being released. You think about these things and you think about, how could a system be so predatory? How is this not a violation of human rights?

When I got out and I seen her and I seen how she was, I was like I can’t go back to jail again. There’s no way. I was going to court, I was taking care of the things that I had to, then our house burned down. That’s what made it worse. The house that burned down was on Florence and Hoover. Right on the corner behind the car wash. After my release I came home, and I talked to my son, and told him you know what happened was wrong and should’ve never happened. Things started going good for us. He was helping me, we were doing our things together. I was working, doing my thing. And somebody brought in a vehicle and they were taking it apart, and one of the guys drilled a hole in the gas tank. The whole house just caught on fire. The only thing I was worried about was my kids and my family. My family was it. Everything got out, we got everything out in time. Mostly everything that burned was all material stuff. And we left. That was it. Four of us are living there. And it’s hard for me, cause I can’t live in the motorhome. It’s too hard for me because of my oxygen, my wheelchair, you know. And I just can’t. I feel irritated, I feel. But I gotta calm down. I gotta take it easy so I won’t get sick.

Our clients don’t deserve this. Our clients are regular people, they’re our community members, they’re our friends, they’re our family. Louis is you know sort of like the center of his family. And I just can’t imagine having a family member that’s sort of like the head of the household be put in jail and have to sit there for a case that’s gonna get dismissed anyways. Part of me was happy that they dismissed the charges, but to go through all this right now is bad. Her nurse, not her nurse, social worker she was getting mad at me because she was missing dialysis. And she said you know we got to think about her getting a kidney donated. I go, what do you mean? She says, well she’s going to need it real soon. I said, well what about me? She goes, you willing to do it? I go, well of course, you know it’s my wife, of course. But because I broke out with his thing on my leg, they’re gonna prolong it a little bit longer. You know because they don’t know if it’s in the blood. If it’s in the blood my kidney won’t be safe for her. It was staph from county jail. And they gave me antibiotics but when I got home it got even worse. Now I got this going on and it’s stopping us from doing what we got to do. I’m not gonna give up. I’m not gonna give up. She’s still gonna get it no matter what. She’s gonna get my kidney. No matter what.